The Sony 1080p camera
by Thomas Kaufman
on
Apr 24, 2004 at 12:18:58 am
Hey there, Varicam folks,
I'm in the unhappy position of explaining to a producer why shooting with the Varicam at 720p and later upconverting to 1080p is the same thing as shooting with Sony's 1080p camera.
I mean, obviosly there are differences between these cameras, but I would appreciate some help here in explaining that Discovery, A & E, and others are perfectly okay with shooting 720p and posting to 1080p.
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Thomas Kaufman on Apr 24, 2004 at 4:24:25 pm
Actually no. The SOny camera is now capable of shooting in 1080p. This means that a producer may be calling you, saying we can't use your Varicam, it's only 720p.
But since Discovery and others routinely accept shows shot 720p and delivered 1080p, couldn't case be made to use the Varicam?
More to the point, what can Varicam owners say to these producers who think the Sony camera is the only one to use when the end product is a show delivered in 1080p.
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Steve Wargo on Apr 24, 2004 at 6:36:51 pm
The F-900 can shoot 24, 25, and 30 progressive frames. The record decks can also record these frame rates. However, this requires a lot of bandwidth for broadcast. Can you tell us who it is that is accepting programming in 1080P?
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Thomas Kaufman on Apr 25, 2004 at 1:50:55 am
Maybe I'm mistaken (I'm not all that familair with Sony HD cameras, I've shot with them a few times but that's all), but I was told the Cine Alta HD camera could shoot 1080 progressive.
Telling me I'm mistaken would greatly imporve my day. :-)
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by john sharaf on Apr 25, 2004 at 3:36:26 am
Thomas,
You are correct in saying that the Sony camera (F900) shoots 1080p, or rather PsF, but only at 24,25 and 30 frame speed. Delivery to NBC, CBS and other networks that have adopted the 1080 format are interlaced, namely 1080i. Panasonic offers transcodeing to this format from DVPRO100 in many of its VTR's including the new 1200A.
1080p is often referred to as "the holy grail" because to origionate at that speed would mean that reasonable slo-motion capability would exist (like the VariCam does) so that film would loose one more benefit over HD.
BTW, I'm told by a source at Panasonic that the Varicam could actually shoot at 120 frames or more, but there is not now any means of recording it at that rate. If their S2 format is eventually extended into the HD realm, or other solid state devices become available, perhaps the software could to upgraded to do so.
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Thomas Kaufman on Apr 25, 2004 at 4:27:26 pm
John,
Thanks for the info, that helps a lot. But what is the 'PsF' you referred to? And more to the point, if you were to compare Varicam footage that was 'upconverted' to 1080p with Sony 900 footage shot in 1080p, would there be a difference? If so, how much a difference and how noticeable?
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by john sharaf on Apr 25, 2004 at 4:47:14 pm
Bart,
I totally agree; for television on broadcast, satalite and cable they're crunching the bandwidth down so one could never telol the difference and I suspect that very few end users will have displays capable of reproducing more that 700 lines resolution.
The only time it will matter is for film out or digital projection (in a 2K environment). In this realm scientific comparisons will be made to show the flaws.
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Charles on Apr 26, 2004 at 12:26:37 am
What IS the bandwidth/bitrate of broadcast,cable and satellite HD?
"I suspect that very few end users will have displays capable of reproducing more that 700 lines resolution."
Won't 1080i HDTV's display the full 1080 lines of resolution? Are there HDTV's being sold as
1080i but actually only capbable of reproducing only 700 lines?
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Vincent Rice on Apr 26, 2004 at 1:17:15 am
There sure are my friend! You be lucky to even approach 900 lines on a 30K$ Sony HD monitor. About the only things capable of 1080 in all its glory are the 23" LCD's from Apple, Sony etc (made by Samsung I think) fed directly via DVI. Of course they are not totally accurate for colour, interlace etc. It is actually quite difficult to tell the difference between HD and well-shot SD on a domestic HDTV. Similarly there are only a couple of cinema projectors capable of displaying 1080 (though more are on the way).
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Charles on Apr 26, 2004 at 4:16:05 pm
Is it also true that computer monitors might not be up to their stated resolutions? I wamt to put together a PC that can accurately diplay (Windows WMV9) 1080 HD footage. I was considering a Samsung Syncmaster with 2048x1536 MAX resolution, as this meets the minimum spec requirements spelled out by MICROSOFT for viewing WMV9 HD 1080 files. I'm also interested in accurately viewing any future HDV footage I might shoot. But after reading your post I'm leary of manufacturer resolution claims. The Syncmasters seem to get good reviews but are they really capable of displaying HD material? Is there an easy way to determine the true resolution of a monitor?
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Jeremy Neish on May 17, 2004 at 5:25:39 pm
Keep in mind that Sony records in 3:1:1 whereas the Panasonic is 4:2:2, so while you are technically getting a little more luminance picture resolution due to 1080p on the Sony, you are getting LESS color (chroma) information due to the 3:1:1 color space.
Re: The Sony 1080p camera by Bart Harrison on May 17, 2004 at 7:26:29 pm
Sony records at 23.976 but they call it 23.98 for convenience. They record HDCAM at 22:11:11 but they call it 3:1:1. Is this also for convenience ? I don't know, but I (for one) think it confuses the issue.
Bart
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