It appears we're going around in circles again. So where do I start ?
[Patrick Inhofer] "Not being a Cinnewave user I assumed this statement to be true. I'm surprised it's on their website so prominently. "
Like I said, I agree with you on this !! I'm the one who pointed it out !
[Patrick Inhofer] "Bart, I hope you are not purposely misrepresenting what Pinnacle is talking about when they state, "You can even edit with the TARGA Ciné software CODEC on a computer that does not have the TARGA Ciné Engine hardware".
CineOffline is built into both the hardware codec and the software codec. Here they are saying you can edit on a system without a Targa Cine card using the software codec. Since it's fairly obvious you can not edit full-res without the card this is a reference to offline editing (using the CineOffline component of the software codec.)
[Patrick Inhofer] "TARGA Ciné codecs offers true 8- and 16-bit YUV and 8-bit RGBA support. You can even edit with the free TARGA Ciné software CODEC on a computer that does not have the TARGA Ciné Engine hardware." (emphasis mine)
These are two distinctly different statements
"TARGA Ciné codecs offers true 8- and 16-bit YUV (and 8-bit RGBA support)" is one statement. And
"You can even edit with the free TARGA Ciné software CODEC on a computer that does not have the TARGA Ciné Engine hardware." is another statement. What's your point ??
[Patrick Inhofer] "And while the web site is a bit more ambiguous a continued reading on the web site or the product brochure make it clear that the TARGA Cine codec and the CineOffline codec are always referred to separately. "
Yes, they are referred to separately because CinéOffline is a FEATURE of both the Targa Ciné hardware codec and the Targa Ciné software codec not a separate product. Again, what's your point ?
[Patrick Inhofer] "the trashing is occurring on Pinnacle's own terms. They promote the portability of their free codec as heavily as they promote the 8- and 16-bit YUV..."
So are you saying because this one line promotes using the Targa Ciné software codec in an offline setting (full-res isn't possible in software) that Targa Ciné hardware deserves trashing ? Really ??
[Patrick Inhofer] "Do you blame a potential car buyer for not buying a car because the door slam is weak? Even if the car is most reliable and fuel efficient ever produced by man? Of course not. The door slam is taken as a proxy for the build and integrity of the rest of the car. "
I agree the Targa Ciné software codec is a weak feature in this product ! I agree !! I AGREE !!! How many times do I have to say this. Anyone and everyone (God forbid) can run through the streets naked screaming "the Targa Ciné software codec sucks" and you will not get an argument from me. But using the weakness of one add-on feature "as proof" that the entire product lacks in quality is wrong... that's what I'm against.
[Patrick Inhofer] "In this case people are using the heavily promoted free codec as a proxy for the rest of the product"
Where is it heavily promoted ?
[Patrick Inhofer] "Heck, by this point I think you've done Cinewave more harm than good by taking this discussion this far.
My point is not to do CineWave or any other product harm or good. My point is to promote fairness on both sides of the fence.
[Patrick Inhofer] "We've shown that Pinnacle is distributing a misleading White Paper, promoting non-existant codecs as shipping product and has a below-average "convenience codec". "
These are all things I have previously agreed with and should be pointed out. (In fact I pointed some of them out myself !) By-the-way I've never said the CineWave convenience codec isn't usable, quite the contrary in some applications (HD for example) it actually fares better than the current BMD 8-bit HD codec. I understand Grant has corrected these problems and will be posting an updated version soon.
[Patrick Inhofer] "Combine that with what seems to be a PCI card that generates more heat than is allowed by the spec and some people might decide not to buy Pinnacle's FCP solution. "
Patrick, do you know what the spec is ? (I do !!) Or are you relying once again on rumor and innuendo. Another slam at CineWave without evidence or fact ??
[Patrick Inhofer] "If I saw any evidence that Marco's site was a Cinewave Sucks.com website I'd support your position whole-heartedly. But I don't see it. "
How many times do I have to say this ? I agree with Marco's codec page about the Targa Ciné software codec. But when someone
badmouths Targa Ciné hardware and uses Marco's work as their only proof I believe it's wrong.
Are you saying you believe doing this is right ??
[Patrick Inhofer] "And I don't see any problem with consumers using every tidbit of information available to them to help them decide where they will spend their next $10,000. "
I agree whole-heartedly as long as this information is used fairly and honestly. For example, if someone said your sister was ugly and then used a picture of your ugly cousin to prove the point wouldn't you be upset ? Marco's codec page only represents a CineWave cousin yet it's often used as proof the entire family is ugly. Is this any less unfair ??
[Patrick Inhofer] "Bart, I can't help but come to the conclusion you are coming at this less than as a Cinewave Forum Leader and more as a Cinewave Reseller, "
Does my asking ALL SIDES to be more honest in how they represent and support their opinions make me less of a CineWave forum leader and more of a CineWave reseller ? How ??
[Patrick Inhofer] "clearly the results of Marco's web site don't help you sell systems"
Why ? The information is accurate and it represents information I give my customers anyway.
[Patrick Inhofer] "but to have a hissy-fit that Marco's web site should be taken down (or ignored) merely because it is losing you sales is... unfortunate and short-sighted. "
Patrick, apparently you've never really read my postings. I've NEVER, EVER suggested Marco's site should come down, be ignored, or anything of the sort. How many times must I say this ??
I simply believe it's wrong for anyone who hasn't actually tested CineWave to publicly badmouth the product and then point to Marco's codec page as their only proof..
[Patrick Inhofer] "If you're losing sales don't blame Marco - maybe those customers really know what they want/need."
Why do you choose to distort my motives this way ? If you actually read my postings you'll see all my points have to do with fundamental fairness. Sure CineWave is a much better fit for most of my customers. Do I also promote Kona ? Absolutely ! I recently had a fourteen seat Kona deal working at a major University. Again, this isn't about sales ! It's about fundamental fairness. You NEVER see any Kona bashing over on the CineWave forum, but here you see CineWave bashing all the time. Sometimes subtle sometimes not so subtle, and most of it without firsthand knowledge or proof of any kind. Do you really think this is right ??
Please ! Don't tell people my sister is ugly and then point to my cousin's picture on Marco's website as your proof. It isn't fair, and it isn't RIGHT !!!
Bart
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"Build `em right... support `em well... let our customers do the talking !"
Bart Harrison
Multimedia Programming America
The HD Suite
America's VAR
Apple, Shake, CineWave, Kona, & Rorke SAN
http://www.mpa.net
