Giving Bart some more rope

[Bart Harrison] "The statement "TARGA Cin? codecs are best of breed" might be challanged, but since no-one here has actually tested these hardware codecs who out there can make that challenge ? "

I have no problem with the "best of breed" statement. It's marketing-ese and any consumer with a few brain cells will take it as a statement of pride rather than a statement of fact.

[Bart Harrison] "I have to side with you on this referance to an 8-bit Targa RGBA codec. If it's not a shipping product this should be removed ! "

Whoa. Not being a Cinnewave user I assumed this statement to be true. I'm surprised it's on their website so prominently.

[Bart Harrison] "The statement "You can even edit with the TARGA Ciné software CODEC on a computer that does not have the TARGA Ciné Engine hardware" is not inaccurate in the least.On a fast enough computer CineOffline can be used to edit on a computer WITHOUT a TARGA Cin? card."

Bart, I hope you are not purposely misrepresenting what Pinnacle is talking about when they state, "You can even edit with the TARGA Ciné software CODEC on a computer that does not have the TARGA Ciné Engine hardware".

They are not talking about CineOffline. They are talking about the free codec. Want proof? Let's look at the Product Brochure (easily downloadable as a .pdf)...

"TARGA Ciné codecs offers true 8- and 16-bit YUV and 8-bit RGBA support. You can even edit with the free TARGA Ciné software CODEC on a computer that does not have the TARGA Ciné Engine hardware." (emphasis mine)

Ignoring for a moment the RGBA issue, the language on the web site and the product brochure are practically identical. And while the web site is a bit more ambiguous a continued reading on the web site or the product brochure make it clear that the TARGA Cine codec and the CineOffline codec are always referred to seperately.

[Bart Harrison] " But on the other hand this continued trashing of CineWave and then pointing to Marco's codec page should also stop."

Here's where I think you're wrong... the thrashing is occuring on Pinnacle's own terms. They promote the portability of their free codec as heavily as they promote the 8- and 16-bit YUV and the (non-existant) 8-bit RGBA codecs.

Do you blame a potential car buyer for not buying a car because the door slam is weak? Even if the car is most reliable and fuel efficient ever produced by man? Of course not. The door slam is taken as a proxy for the build and integrity of the rest of the car.

In this case people are using the heavily promoted free codec as a proxy for the rest of the product. Heck, by this point I think you've done Cinewave more harm than good by taking this discussion this far. We've shown that Pinnacle is distributing a misleading White Paper, promoting non-existant codecs as shipping product and has a below-average "convenience codec". Combine that with what seems to be a PCI card that generates more heat than is allowed by the spec and some people might decide not to buy Pinnacle's FCP solution.

If I saw any evidence that Marco's site was a Cinewave Sucks.com website I'd support your position whole-heartedly. But I don't see it.

And I don't see any problem with consumers using every tidbit of information available to them to help them decide where they will spend their next $10,000.

Bart, I can't help but come to the conclusion you are coming at this less than as a Cinewave Forum Leader and more as a Cinewave Reseller, clearly the results of Marco's web site don't help you sell systems... but to have a hissy-fit that Marco's web site should be taken down (or ignored) merely because it is losing you sales is... unfortunate and short-sighted.

FYI, I have peers who know everything I've put in this post, yet they've still chosen to buy the Cinewave. Why? Because it meets their needs. Nothing stated here is an all-consuming damnation of Cinewave. Far from it. An educated consumer makes educated choices. If you're losing sales don't blame Marco - maybe those customers really know what they want/need.

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Patrick Inhofer
editor, compositor, nice guy
applePi Editorial, nyc
Cow forum leader: Kona